High Boost ProCharger Issues and Tips [Archive]

Jay'Z

06-27-2008, 08:00 PM

:pain10: Now i have been changing these two belts for about 2 yrs(880-8MGT30, 560-9MGT30).... But :1zhelp: i finally got the main belt tightened perfect.. but the belt behind the sc is too lose and i cant get it any tighter.. I already have it turned fully to the right clockwise position.. WTF gives... Theres way too much play and causing 3 belts to break in the past 3wks..... :Wow:

Any info on the belt tightening methods would be good.. I know how to tighten the main belt with the bolt on the 880 belt.. The other belt you loosen allen keys to turn them to the right/clockwise and tighten the other small 560 belt.. but there must be more ways to tighten cause my 560 has at least one inch of play.. what am i missing???????

:character :happy57:

Tere

06-27-2008, 08:20 PM

Jay'Z

06-27-2008, 09:14 PM

ur kidding me.... :FIREdevil brb.. lemme check.....

motowipeout

06-27-2008, 09:21 PM

I thought you were planning on getting a Greddy TT @ Forged Performance, that's been a while back though.

Jay'Z

06-27-2008, 09:25 PM

nope bro.. i been right all along.. it was to the right.. them three big allen bolts go to the right for tightening.. i may have to buy a smaller belt with less teeth..

Jay'Z

06-27-2008, 09:34 PM

I thought you were planning on getting a Greddy TT @ Forged Performance, that's been a while back though.

I still am.. just havent had the time or good chance to drop my car off in GA...

Tere

06-28-2008, 08:21 AM

nope bro.. i been right all along.. it was to the right.. them three big allen bolts go to the right for tightening.. i may have to buy a smaller belt with less teeth..Then you have a big time incorrect installation error. Shoot me some closeup photos of your setup.

The way it works (or should work) is a large off center pin (cam-like action) -- moving the adjustment counterclockwise (as you face the engine), moves the inner pulley (the one closest to the engine with the flange) away from the outer pulley (the one on the compressor), increasing the distance between the two pulleys, and tightening the belt. Moving the adjustment clockwise, moves the inner pulley toward the outer pulley, decreasing the distance between the two pulleys, and loosening the belt.

Done correctly, your three clamping bolts should be somewhere close to the middle of the adjustment slots with a 5608 Gates cog belt.

So if your setup is not doing this then you've got something wrong with the setup.

Tere

06-28-2008, 09:00 AM

http://tere.net/t-z/pc-adj1.jpg

Tere

06-28-2008, 09:38 AM

Page 32 of ProCharger installation manual:

15. ... Make sure the eccentric tightening bolts are loose, adjust eccentric for cog belt tension by inserting a screw driver into adjusting holes and rotating housing.
16. Rotate eccentric tensioner clockwise until it stops. Install blower cog belt. Rotate eccentric tensioner counter-clockwise as needed to install the main cog belt.
17. Rotate the eccentric counter-clockwise until desired blower cog belt tension is achieved. Blower cog belt should be tensioned to a deflection of 0.4" under 20lbs (finger pressure). See Illustration C22 for measuring belt deflection. ...

Emphasis mine. The "main cog belt" is the outer or front belt; the "blower cog belt" is the inner or back belt. The inner belt is installed first, then the outer belt. The inner belt is then tensioned and clamped, and then tension the outer belt.

LOL... Never question a Z Chick when it comes to bending wrenches on a blown 350! :)

Jay'Z

06-28-2008, 09:45 AM

Then you have a big time incorrect installation error. Shoot me some closeup photos of your setup.

The way it works (or should work) is a large off center pin (cam-like action) -- moving the adjustment counterclockwise (as you face the engine), moves the inner pulley (the one closest to the engine with the flange) away from the outer pulley (the one on the compressor), increasing the distance between the two pulleys, and tightening the belt. Moving the adjustment clockwise, moves the inner pulley toward the outer pulley, decreasing the distance between the two pulleys, and loosening the belt.

Done correctly, your three clamping bolts should be somewhere close to the middle of the adjustment slots with a 5608 Gates cog belt.

So if your setup is not doing this then you've got something wrong with the setup.

Your totally right.. after posting this same thread on my350z a member said the same thing.. so i totally pulled out the allen screws and then turned the adjuster counter clockwise almost 180 and saw two holes on top of the adjuster.. so i put my allen key and pulled the belt and bam!! its perfect.. I cant believe i had such a big time error for over a few years.. :fire: Not trying to point fingers but i have lost massive amounts of belts due to this bs!! i swear over 1k in belts!!!

Jay'Z

06-28-2008, 09:59 AM

As in the pic above with the screw driver I finally see those holes, i didnt have them b4.. Now i got the belts tightened.. thanks bro!!

Tere

06-28-2008, 11:28 AM

Happy to help! And glad you have the issue resolved.

LOL... I went out early this morning and snapped the photo just for you!

The ProCharger in the photo is pushing 16 psi at 7,100 redline by the way. The engine is custom built to easily handle 25 psi without a problem. :)

Jay'Z

06-28-2008, 03:26 PM

What whp you at? Im fully built also with the 16psi pulley...... Only hit 16psi a few times.. belts been breaking and finally found out why..... :lurking:

Jay'Z

06-28-2008, 04:03 PM

BTW im going to buy the GT3 gates belt and test one of each out and see if those are stronger..

Tere

06-28-2008, 05:06 PM

She's running around 480 depending on the alignment of the sun, moon, and stars.

I've found the inner belt degrades fairly quickly due to heat buildup -- the rubber tends to melt and the cogs start to separate from the belt. Especially true here in San Antonio in the summer. We've had two weeks of 95 or higher, so I baby the belts by avoiding high rpms and quick shifts. The last couple of miles home I run at low rpms just to cool the belts and compressor down a little. It also helped cooling a bit when I put on the Seibon vented hood (with the vents made operational). I also put in a Tial BOV so I'm not recirculating hot air back into the compressor. This reduces the intake air temp at the throttle body (another heat sensitive component).

Once the temp gets down below 80, the belt degradation lessens significantly. In the winter, the belts last forever.

I've been trying to talk ATI into making me up some micro-V pulleys so I can ditch the cog belts, but they're not interested. We know the micro-V works just fine since the serpentine micro-V drives the whole mess anyway without a problem. I might just go and machine some of my own and bump up the boost a bit more in the process. The teeth on the pulleys also wear down (I've replaced a couple pulleys already) and you won't have the wear problem with micro-V pulleys.

It's a hoot with the BOV -- makes the turbo BOVs sound puny. Between the jet engine compressor whine and the BOV, folks get out of my way. On the track when I go from WOT to idle you can hear the BOV everywhere on the track -- sounds like a huge bull whip when I shift gears. :)

Tere

06-28-2008, 05:18 PM

BTW im going to buy the GT3 gates belt and test one of each out and see if those are stronger..Let me know how well they work.

w0ady

06-28-2008, 06:00 PM

congrats on getting your problem resolved op. nice work as usual tere.

Jay'Z

06-28-2008, 07:16 PM

Jay'Z

06-28-2008, 07:20 PM

Btw i was thinking about the micro v thing the other day too.. Its just a matter of getting the pulleys made.. Which could take forever to find a manufacturer or part#:book:

Tere

06-29-2008, 09:10 AM

Btw i was thinking about the micro v thing the other day too.. Its just a matter of getting the pulleys made.. Which could take forever to find a manufacturer or part#:book:I was thinking about just getting a block of aluminum alloy and getting a local machine shop to machine the pulleys to spec. The hard part of all that is the "spec" part. I was also thinking that if we put micro-V on the back we can make the drive pulley a wee bit larger. I don't think either of the driven pulleys should go smaller, but the two drive pulleys can go a little larger.

I think it's interesting that on almost all ATI's high boost blowers they're using micro-V. I guess they just don't want to fool with the 350 application.

Jay'Z

06-29-2008, 10:13 AM

Yep i noticed that..

Hey could you answer my bov question.. How many threads do you have exposed on your bov?

Tere

06-29-2008, 10:18 AM

Same here.. i have a zen bov.. i just havent been able to get the bov to blow off quite like i want it to.. how many thread do you have exposed?? I havent run into anyone running the ati like we are.. this is cool because we could trade info..

i know what your saying about the inside belt cooking up.. what i have done is re wrapped all my wiring with elec tape and tucked it under the fender.. i also re wrapped the harness going across the plenum about 5 times and it looks clean as ****....

BTW i had a great belt called the JASON TIGER belt.. and if i had any more id prob be fine but since ive never had my belts tensioned right until today i couldnt take advantage of that.. the JASON Belts are way smoother and better for the pulleys.. Same size too.. Pricing is about the same.. 40-50 each..

http://www.jasonindustrial.com/Products/index.cfm?ID=42&Type=ProductThis is definitely cool since you're the first person I've run into who is pushing the big boost through the ATI. LOL... We're on the leading edge because that much boost brings a whole new set of issues to the table; most of them heat related. We'll definitely have to collaborate! :)

My Tial is set at 11 psi of vacuum, so under most cruising conditions it's dumping everything. I adjusted it using readings from my vacuum/boost gauge.

Have you killed very many throttle bodies (actually the ETC part of it)? In the summer, I kill 'em every 2-3 months, so I keep spares on hand -- just like my inventory of spare belts. I use the Nissan rebuilt ones since they're dirt cheap by comparison to new ones -- get 'em through Courtesy since they always have 'em in stock.

I'll definitely take a look at the Jason belts to see if the cogs hold up better and don't delaminate under heat stress like the Gates. I've saved a couple of my Gates belts where you can see the delamination and reverted (melted) rubber.

Just so we can compare systems:
Engine: balanced and polished crank; ceramic coated main and rod bearings; ARP main and head studs and rod bolts; Pauter rods; CP ceramic coated pistions (slight overbore to true cylinders using torque plate); ported and polished heads; valves trued; JWT mild cams and springs.
Fuel: Walbro 255lph pump; AAM fuel rails with regulator and return line; RC 550cc injectors.
Cooling: Koyo radiator, NISMO cap and thermostat, SAMCO hoses
Exhaust: NISMO headers, RT test pipes, Borla dual exhaust
Intake: Standard ATI plumbing and intercooler except the Tial BOV; Kinetix SSV plenum
Engine management: TS custom flash mapped on the rich side, GReddy e-Manage, dedicated laptop for data logging and tuning.
Gauges: A-pillar triple - AEM wideband O2, Defi vacuum/boost, Defi fuel pressure. Also the fuel pressure on the regulator -- setup allows me to monitor fuel pressure on both sides of the rails.

If you haven't seen it, I posted a vid of two high speed flybys on the front straight of a 2.9 mile road course at Texas World Speedway. The zoomed in flyby doesn't give the sense of speed, but both flybys are about the same speed. :)

http://www.myzfrenzy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9041&highlight=Texas+World+Speedway

Jay'Z

06-29-2008, 11:01 AM

VQ35 9.2:1 Custom Pistons ( designed for S/C'd Application ) , Carillo A Beam - 350Z Lightweight Forged Rod, 350Z L19 Head Stud Kit, HKS metal Stopper Gaskets for the NISSAN VQ35 engines Complete Set Left & Right, JWT 350Z C2 Turbo Cam Grind, HD Springs for VQ35, Labor full Port & Polish Head Job for S/C'd application stock valve diameter, Decking, Line Honing of Cam Journals, Bowl Work & 5 Angle Valve Job, Labor Machining of Block: Bore, Hone, Line Hone Crank Journal, Decking, Cleaning of water & oil passages, New Galley Plugs, Balancing, Bearings, Rings & Assembly of Shortblock, Nissan VQ35 REVUP Oil Pump for the new 05 + engine, Engine Gasket Kit - VQ35, Labor Assembly of Longblock, Timing of Engine, oil Pump Assembly & Re-Work for Race purposes, Cam Timing Done, Nismo headers, nismo clutch nismo flywheel, nismo clutch cover, x02 true dual exhaust, Ultimate racing high flow catalytic converters, NGK iridium 1 step colder plugs, carbonetics lsd, nismo fin diff cover, ATI C2 Procharger capable/up to 16psi, CJM return fuel system, RC 750cc injectors, walbro 255lph fuel pump.

I have never had any issues besides belts breaking on the SC.. Other things that have broken are the diff, ran over wires due to piping pushing fender well on wheel.. thats about it..

Jay'Z

06-30-2008, 11:39 AM

Jay'Z

06-30-2008, 01:29 PM

Also on another note.. i contacted gates and i cant get the gt3 belts from gates.. they are only available in europe.. FTMFL!! Im working on getting the JASON INDUSTRIAL BELTS tiger edition..

Tere

06-30-2008, 02:52 PM

After fixing this issue i have done over 12 wot pulls with no belt issues.. by this time i usually have fraying of the belts or total destruction.. I can say im really happy in one hand but pissed off on the other because it took so long to figure this out and my installer was definately at fault.. this upsets me because i have spent over 1k on belts alone could have saved me lots of headache too.. ;(Great news! Nothing like DIY if you want it done right! LOL... Installed the ProCharger myself back in September of '03. Long DIY article in the Z Chickz Garage for the basic 7 psi kit.

I'm definitely going to give the Jason belts a try -- can't be any worse than the failure rate for the Gates.

Jay'Z

06-30-2008, 02:55 PM

Still waiting on the JASON industrial belt distributor.. Theyre supposed to call me back.. BTW i have done more wot runs.. about 20 now and no belt issues.. Gaaaaad damn this **** runs so much better..

Jay'Z

06-30-2008, 03:18 PM

This is how she purrs at idle......

<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i40.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/ZIDLE.flv">

Jay'Z

06-30-2008, 03:46 PM

Just ordered the Jason belts and got 3ea of the 880/560.. total was aloooot.. Way more than gates.. 350.00 :eek:

Tere

07-01-2008, 11:38 AM

Tere

07-01-2008, 11:59 AM

Here's a little quickie video of me just driving around the block in my neighborhood. LOL... some of my neighbors don't appreciate this fine (loud) Z car. :):):)

No WOT runs -- it sounds the same, just a lot louder on WOT redline shifts. You get to hear me play tunes with the BOV though...

http://tere.net/t-z/tere350zsc-1.mpg

AuburnZ

07-01-2008, 12:30 PM

Very cool, Tere!

Jay'Z

07-01-2008, 12:43 PM

Who did you order from? Three of each as below is $230.67. I was going to try one 8808 and three 5608s.

I got this price quote...

Thank you for your inquiry.
1 pc.880-8M-30T Jason Tiger Belts 44.60 ea.
1 pc.560-8M-30T Jason Tiger Belts 32.29 ea.
Factory stock FOB New Jersey

Gordon D. Mulvey, Jr.
E.B. Atmus Co., Inc
www.ebatmus.com
gmulvey@ebatmus.com

Wow i got *** raped then.. who is that?? Give me there number bro!! :toast:

The sound is just like mine.. but your bov is betta.. :blunt: Oh but my engine may sound a little louder because of my cams.. sounds like a baby diesel truck.. :boink:

Too bad i never ran into you while i was stationed at Ft. Hood.. We coulda ran the streets.. :D

Jay'Z

07-01-2008, 12:44 PM

Very cool, Tere!

Wtf no likey my vid?? :sign09: Ok, i will make a bad *** vid today.. I got a friend to help me out..

AuburnZ

07-01-2008, 01:02 PM

Wtf no likey my vid?? :sign09: Ok, i will make a bad *** vid today.. I got a friend to help me out..

Sorry, I somehow skipped past yours, but it is great as well!

Jay'Z

07-01-2008, 01:09 PM

Tere, thanks for the info.. I called and placed an order with them (Atmus).. **** was wayyyy cheaper and im calling to cancel my other rapage/pwn order as we speak.. :(

Order cancelled!! They were pissed but who cares.. I dont accept rapage..

I ordered 5 of each from that place bro.. :eek: Price was about 380.00 = 2 more belts for the same price.. Hope to never ever have to order belts again.. :D

Tere

07-01-2008, 08:50 PM

LOL... You're a hoot! You probably have enough SC belts to last a lifetime! I'm glad we got your SC belt issue fixed so you can really enjoy driving your Z without having to worry about ripping up a belt every 10 miles!

Yeah, we could have laid waste to the import cruising scene with two big boost 350s. I only go when one of my nephews wants to play with his buddies' minds. So right after some Subbie gives a little weak ping on his BOV, I hit 'em with the bullwhip. I love it because the supercharger with a BOV sounds so completely different from what folks are used to hearing. The reaction is even more amusing when the kids find out that a 60 year-old grandma built the car.

Jay'Z

07-01-2008, 09:31 PM

Ur a 60 yr old grandma?? or your mom who is a grandma built it?? WOW, either way.. :eek:

motowipeout

07-01-2008, 09:54 PM

Jay'Z

07-01-2008, 09:57 PM

motowipeout

07-01-2008, 10:05 PM

Ask her about her new car!

Dr Bonz

07-02-2008, 07:06 AM

The FASTEST 60 year old grandma you will ever see! :)

When she's 80, she's going to install twin turbos on her walker!

Jay'Z

07-02-2008, 09:53 AM

Everyone needs to calm down........ I had her on my thread.. stay off.. :D

AuburnZ

07-02-2008, 11:11 AM

Jay'Z

07-02-2008, 02:41 PM

Tere

07-02-2008, 07:25 PM

Be warned now. Tere kicks Z as$, C6 as$ and soon to be Z06 as$ and 911As$. Jonb she is and X- fighter pilot and the female version of Anakin Skywalker and I'm damn proud to have her on the Frenzy site!!!!!!!LOL.. The '03 kicks Z06s and 911 Turbos butts too.

Thanks for the kudos! You're making me blush. I just came in from spending the whole day lying on my back under the 300 TT. :)

Tere

07-02-2008, 07:29 PM

Ur a 60 yr old grandma?? or your mom who is a grandma built it?? WOW, either way.. :eek:Ah yep... That would be true. I've got 1 granddaughter and 3 grandsons. My oldest son is 33 and my youngest son is 29. And my hobby (maybe obsession) is tinkering with cars. :)

Tere

07-02-2008, 07:33 PM

The FASTEST 60 year old grandma you will ever see! :)

When she's 80, she's going to install twin turbos on her walker!I better never see a walker. Now twin turbos in a scooter, maybe... LOL... :)

Tere

07-02-2008, 07:51 PM

Tere does all the work on her cars herself and writes some great DIY's. Her new car that is on the way is a GT-R...she needed a back seat for her grandchild and she couldn't give up her Z's. He is one lucky grandkid!I can hardly wait to get my hands on this little number... :)

Flash the ECM and a better exhaust I think for starters... :)

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t193/streetseen/Nissan/09GTR/Misc/GTR2.jpg

Jay'Z

07-02-2008, 08:11 PM

I can hardly wait to get my hands on this little number... :)

Flash the ECM and a better exhaust I think for starters... :)

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t193/streetseen/Nissan/09GTR/Misc/GTR2.jpg

Bad *** pic!! Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiheece!! :buttrock: Mad respect!!:thumbsup: I dont doubt youve beat those cars... :D

AuburnZ

07-03-2008, 11:00 AM

So Tere...when is your GT-R coming in? Do you know the owner of the one in the pic you posted?

Jay'Z

07-03-2008, 12:19 PM

I hope to have my TIGER belts next week and ill post pics.....

Tere

07-03-2008, 02:56 PM

So Tere...when is your GT-R coming in? Do you know the owner of the one in the pic you posted?I have no idea yet on arrival. The #6 at Grubbs is scheduled for October -- I'm #9, so I'm guessing January or as late as February. It better be here by April so I can take the two 350s and the GT-R to the Texas Z Nationals. Picture the GT-R between the two 350s at the show. :)

Tere

07-03-2008, 02:58 PM

I hope to have my TIGER belts next week and ill post pics.....I also ordered 1 8808 and 3 5608s -- should be here by next week as well. I'll wait until my current 5608 eats itself and then I'll swap in the Jason belts. :)

Tere

07-03-2008, 03:01 PM

So Tere...when is your GT-R coming in? Do you know the owner of the one in the pic you posted?The owner of the pictured one is in Japan, so it's a JDM spec. The US spec GT-Rs have amber front and red rear side markers.

Jay'Z

07-03-2008, 08:18 PM

I also ordered 1 8808 and 3 5608s -- should be here by next week as well. I'll wait until my current 5608 eats itself and then I'll swap in the Jason belts. :)

How long does yours take to tear up?? :o

Tere

07-04-2008, 05:37 PM

How long does yours take to tear up?? :oIt depends on the season. Both belts last about all winter. Spring and fall: 8808 about 3 months; 5608 about 6 weeks. Summer (temps above 90-95): 8808 about 6-8 weeks; 5608 about 3-4 weeks unless I really baby the belts with no WOT runs -- keep the rpms low by running the next higher gear than I normally would. Because of heat buildup, the rubber in the 5608 tends to melt and the teeth start to separate from the belt; same with the 8808 but the deterioration process takes longer. On a track day, I usually end up replacing both belts if it looks like they're starting to go bad -- it's a bummer if you lose about 250 ponies right in the middle of a session.

I noticed the Jason Tigers have an aramid compound -- hopefully they'll take the high heat better than the Gates.

The other problem I have in the summer is melting the circuit board on the Electron Throttle Control -- before I put on the Siebon vented hood, I'd kill a throttle body every 6-8 weeks. Now I only go through about two to three a year. I'm thinking about rigging up some sort of ram air ducting to the ETC to see if that helps.

Jay'Z

07-04-2008, 11:47 PM

The other problem I have in the summer is melting the circuit board on the Electron Throttle Control -- before I put on the Siebon vented hood, I'd kill a throttle body every 6-8 weeks. Now I only go through about two to three a year. I'm thinking about rigging up some sort of ram air ducting to the ETC to see if that helps.

That doesnt make sense to me.. How is it your melting a circuit board?? I have never melted anything.. I did get the kinetix V+ for that reason though.. For a while the stock plenum was super hot.. The V+ took the temps way down.. :sport009:

Tere

07-06-2008, 11:10 AM

That doesnt make sense to me.. How is it your melting a circuit board?? I have never melted anything.. I did get the kinetix V+ for that reason though.. For a while the stock plenum was super hot.. The V+ took the temps way down.. :sport009:It's the temp of the air going through the throttle body before it gets to the plenum.

In the summer with 95+ degrees...
1. Hotter air coming in
2. Increased compressor discharge temp
3. Less intercooler efficiency
4. Increased intake air temp at the throttle body

On hot summer days when running at or near WOT, I've seen intake air temps as high as 220 degrees -- the ETC circuitry apparently doesn't like getting that hot.

A couple other solutions I might try...
1. Water spray on the intercooler, but that means a big water tank and associated plumbing.
2. Intake air temp cooler in the area of the MAF/throttle body.

Jay'Z

07-06-2008, 12:55 PM

Tap on wood.. Ive never had those problems.. And i just left Tx after being stationed at Ft. Hood.. Never had them problems there either.. Wow.. I re wrap all my elecwiring because of the heat though.. thats about it..

Jay'Z

07-08-2008, 06:17 PM

UPDATE!! Just received 10 new JASON TIGER Belts... The TIGER BELTS are wrapped in white string(look alot thicker/better than gates.. Gates belts are right next to them..
BTW.. Thats over 600 bucks in belts.. :eek:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/JASONBELTS2.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/JASONBELTS1.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/JASONBELTS3.jpg
The long 880 Gates has a regular JASON belt inside which is why the inner belt looks different
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/JASONBELTS.jpg

These should last me a few years now that i got the damn sc tensioner aligned right and tightened perfect!!

motowipeout

07-08-2008, 07:50 PM

So are you going to try a different pulley to get more HP now that you have stronger belts?

Jay'Z

07-08-2008, 08:03 PM

So are you going to try a different pulley to get more HP now that you have stronger belts?

No such pulley.....

Tere

07-09-2008, 12:03 AM

LOL... My Jason belts arrived today too! Now the testing begins to see if they last longer than the Gates! I also did the side by side comparison. The Jason belts do look to be made better and a little heftier. I think the aramid fibers will help as well. Delivery time is short, service is good -- drop shipped straight from the factory.

Both of us are running the largest drive and smallest driven pulleys that ATI makes for the 350Z Procharger application. The next step up would be custom fabricated pulleys.

I think there are only a handful of us in the US running this pulley combination. Once you get above 9psi pulleys, you're looking at a motor build and fuel system, and, and, and...

motowipeout

07-09-2008, 02:40 AM

Dr Bonz

07-09-2008, 07:03 AM

I too am going to look into getting these belts but I'm going to wait until I get my Procharger refurbished. I still haven't got the chance (time) to call them. You usually end up on hold for a bit before you can talk to a tech.

In fact, I called around 6 PM last Thursday and was on hold for about 20 minutes. I figured that since they are in Kansas (central time) they might still be open.

This is obviously a long distance call since they don't have an 800 number (at least not one that I know of....do you guys have one by chance?) Good thing I was on my cell with unlimited long distance.

Anyway, a guy FINALLY answers and when I start to tell him my problem he says that he isn't a tech and that they were all gone for the day and that I shouldn't have been able to get through on that phone line!

Oh well. I haven't got a chance to call them back. Have to try again later.

motowipeout

07-09-2008, 08:15 AM

Doc, can you not just e-mail them to get things started?

w0ady

07-09-2008, 11:12 AM

nice tank treads!

AuburnZ

07-09-2008, 01:03 PM

I can see the difference in the thickness in those belts. Looks like they would last longer.

Doc--I agree with Moto...maybe try an email to get them to call you. Or at least to give you a 800 #.

Dr Bonz

07-09-2008, 04:07 PM

Probably a good idea to start but I will need to speak with them personally eventually. Maybe I'll shoot them an e-mail tonight.

Dr Bonz

07-13-2008, 09:37 AM

Anyone know of a way to e-mail the Procharger techs? I looked on their website and all I can see is this page: http://www.procharger.com/emailtech.shtml

I fill in the form and try to hit "Submit" and nothing happens. I've tried for two days now with no success.

I also just haven't had the time to call since they aren't open on weekends or nights.

AuburnZ

07-14-2008, 10:16 AM

Did you put your serial number in the form? It is not the most helpful site and they should have a 1-800 number.

Dr Bonz

07-14-2008, 11:48 AM

Yes on the serial number and not that I can find on the 800 number.

That's really not a problem as I just call on my cell phone. It's just that you have to wait for a tech and I just don't have the time while at work.

I don't see an e-mail address listed anywhere either.

Oh well. I'll get to it eventually.

Jay'Z

07-21-2008, 06:46 PM

I used to email them using the site and it worked..http://www.procharger.com/emailtech.shtml

Dr Bonz

07-21-2008, 09:27 PM

Yep. That's the form that wouldn't work for me.

I did call them and I'm going to have to remove the blower along with the jack shaft so they can look at it. Depending on what it is, it will run from $500 to $1500 ballpark. It will take awhile so I am debating on whether to wait until late fall early winter when the car is garaged anyway.

I went over the fact that I had the metal flakes in the oil the first oil change and they said that that wouldn't matter since it worked well for nearly 4 years after that and since I am out of the 3 year warranty.

Decisions decisions.

motowipeout

07-21-2008, 10:26 PM

^^^

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee18/motowipeout/ntnsracing_2005_15704805.jpg

:wink:

Dr Bonz

07-22-2008, 07:20 AM

Are you sayng that you were going to GIVE that kit to me for being such a nice guy Moto? :)

motowipeout

07-22-2008, 08:23 AM

If by saying "give that kit to you" you actually mean you buying it from Sharif, well then don't mention it, I'm always glad to be of assistance.

Dr Bonz

07-22-2008, 12:07 PM

Yep. That's exactly what I meant! :)

AuburnZ

07-22-2008, 12:27 PM

If the car is running, but just lower boost than normal, I would say wait until you garage her. Of course, as long as more parts won't get damanged by waiting...

Tere

07-22-2008, 10:19 PM

If the compressor bearings start to go, it will be really obvious. At that point, disconnect the front drive belt and drive NA until you decide it's time to do the fix.

Dr Bonz

07-23-2008, 07:18 AM

It runs fine and I get about 3 psi of boost until 5000 RPM's then it drops to 0 psi. SO I still put down about 330 WHP. Better then stock but SADLY lacking compared to what I used to have. :(

motowipeout

07-23-2008, 12:29 PM

So Doc, are you going to do anything, as far as fixing or replacing your FI system, in the near future?

Dr Bonz

07-23-2008, 02:58 PM

I will probably wait until fall when the car is garaged, take off the blower and send it in for them to fix.

Like I said in a previous post, I can't really afford any full new setup now but in about 3 years I may go TT and stay around 400-420 WHP or possibly have Sharif build the engine and go bigger boost and thus more HP but that is a long way away.

Jay'Z

07-23-2008, 05:46 PM

My next route may be the Powerlab ST kit..... "I may just drop my car off at Sharifs or ship it... over night from Japan"..

Jay'Z

07-23-2008, 05:47 PM

BTW my PWR radiator just cracked from a hose clamp rubbing on it (SGP installed).... FTMFL!! Bad ****ing luck lately........

motowipeout

07-23-2008, 08:30 PM

My next route may be the Powerlab ST kit..... "I may just drop my car off at Sharifs or ship it... over night from Japan"..

BTW my PWR radiator just cracked from a hose clamp rubbing on it (SGP installed).... FTMFL!! Bad ****ing luck lately........

Your stationed in Japan!?!?!?

Did you call them up and ask them for a new one or at least givem' a hard time. :flame:

Tere

07-29-2008, 09:38 PM

Doc, I got to thinking... That could be dangerous...

Take a peek at all your hoses on the boost plumbing. Particularly look at the compressor discharge outlet hose. Due to bad design on the outlet, mine would sometimes work itself a little loose such that I lost a bit of boost.

If this is the case, fashion a snap ring and put it in the outermost groove -- lock it in place with a little duct tape and then put the hose back on. Put the clamp so it's on the compressor side of the snap ring. Guarantee that hose will never come loose again. The snap ring is easy to make out of heavy wire (as in coat hanger), and the duct tape melts a bit making a really tight seal. Works like a champ! The cost of a little bit of time, a scrap of duct tape, and a coathanger beats reworking the compressor!

Dr Bonz

07-29-2008, 11:31 PM

Sharif THOROUGHLY explored the entire setup for any sign of boost leak and none was found. He inspected everything and pressurized the entire setup to check for any leaks and none were noted.

He also mentioned that if it were a boost leak somewhere, I should see a pretty much universal loss of boost and not normal boost up until a certain amount of engine RPM's and thus blower RPM's.

Tere

07-30-2008, 09:25 PM

Darn, and I was hoping it would be the quick simple fix for ya!

Dr Bonz

07-31-2008, 07:28 AM

Thanks for the idea though! :)

Tere

08-01-2008, 08:04 PM

Well, the inner Gates belt started to go today, so I just swapped in the first set of Jason Tigers. So the comparison test begins...

Dr Bonz

08-02-2008, 09:25 AM

Let me know how those go Tere. I plan on getting a set if they work out well.

Tere

08-06-2008, 08:58 PM

Not looking good for Jason Tiger belts.

First inner belt lasted 3.5 days of driving. I could probably get one more day out of it before it completely shreds. During this period, I didn't do many high rpm shifts; one day was wet and rainy, so I harrdly got over 4,000 rpm on that day. I doubt it would last more than about two 20-minute track sessions. Outer belt still OK.

The inner belt was tensioned exactly the same as the Gates 5608. Under the same conditions, the Gates 5608 lasts 2.5 - 3 weeks -- summertime 95-100 degrees ambient air temp.

I bought one Jason 8808 (outer) and three Jason 5608 (inner) -- second inner belt goes on tonight.

LOL... It's so bad that I can hear a belt starting to fail. I still think the best bet with ProCharger high boost applications, micro-V belts would be 100% better than cog belts.

It doesn't appear that ATI has any inclination to improve the product based on user feedback and suggestions. That basicaly relegates ATI to a low customer support rating. Plus as Doc Bonz observed in this thread, contacting ATI customer service is hit and miss (mostly miss).

Tere

08-06-2008, 09:56 PM

You be the judge -- Gates 5608 in back after 3 weeks; Jason 5608 in front after 3.5 days. Note the Jason even has a chunk missing. On both you can see how the rubber melts causing the teeth to delaminate and eventually torn off. I believe the melted rubber is caused by the compressor (driven) pulley after engine shutdown. Running a low rpm "cool down" doesn't seem to make much difference.

http://tere.net/t-z/gates-jason1.jpg

Now we'll see how long belt two lasts.

Dr Bonz

08-06-2008, 11:11 PM

WOW Tere. You (and the hot TX weather) sure are tough on those belts. Mine wear out, but they last me an entire driving season (April to November) up here.

AuburnZ

08-07-2008, 09:40 AM

Wow Tere...3.5 days? I would think even the 3 weeks is a pain to change belts out.

Tere

08-07-2008, 08:52 PM

LOL... I can change belts just about as fast as you can blink your eyes (well almost maybe). I takes less than 10 minutes for the whole R&R for the rear (inner) belt. The front (outer) belt only is a couple minutes.

Today I did some high rpm shifts; last part of drive was low rpm cool down, and I popped the hood on shutdown to improve cooling. Temp got up to about 95 today.

motowipeout

08-07-2008, 09:36 PM

Sorry to hear about the belt problems.

Hey, sorry to go off topic but I just got back from a small vacation in San Antonio, I never get tired of that place. I stayed about a block away from the AlamoDome and just a few blocks away from the Riverwalk. Their is a small sports bar next to the motel where I stayed and they make the best Tecate Chillada ever, and I do mean EVER.

Tere, you live in a historically rich and very cool part of Tejas to say the least!!!

Tere

08-08-2008, 07:09 PM

Dang... Shoulda let me know you'd be down this way!

Yeah, they've cleaned the place up since the early '70s when it was a tiny dot on the map. The Riverwalk used to be pretty much an open sewer. Out where I live it used to be the "country" and now it's gridlock at rush hour.

motowipeout

08-09-2008, 01:37 AM

^^^
I'll be sure and let you know the next time I head that direction. I had a few days off in a row so this trip was just on a whim but I had a good time for sure.

Tere

08-09-2008, 04:18 PM

One day, 12 miles, and already I can see a 2" long section where the rubber between the cog teeth has started to melt, exposing the main belt cords on the inner belt. A few more days may be all I get out of it. I'd say the Gates heat threshold is higher than the Jason belts. The trip home from work yesterday was HOT-- it was over 100 degrees, so that put a huge amount of heat stress on the belt.

The front Jason belt (8808) still looks pristine since it's running at a lower temp. So as long as you run below the max heat threshold for the Jason belts, they work fine.

Dr Bonz

08-09-2008, 11:10 PM

Tere: Have you ever had the problem of wear on the teeth of the pulleys themselves? This is my second set and where the belts contact the pulleys, the teeth are partially eaten away for about 2-3 millimeters causing the belts to sit in that same area all the time.

Tere

08-11-2008, 08:06 PM

Yep, Doc, the pulley aluminum is very soft. I've replaced the inner pulleys once. Since I've gone from 7 -> 9 -> 14 (16) pulleys on the front I haven't yet got those worn to the nub. My inner pulleys are about to the point of needing replacement again. I might take an old set of pulleys and have them machined to a micro-V and try out a micro-V on the inner belt. If that low-cost trial works, the I'll machine the outer pulleys to micro-V as well.

Another reason for going to micro-V -- I don't see micro-V pulleys wearing as fast -- reference the sepentine belt micro-V pulleys that don't seem to wear at all.

Tere

08-11-2008, 08:17 PM

Jason inner belt (5608) number two died after two 100 degree days of driving -- only 24 miles total.

This time the length of the failed section is longer, more closely resembling the Gates in the previous comparison photo. I'll slap Jason 5608 number three on tonight, but I think we know I'll be lucky to last out the week.

The bottom line looks like Gates are less susceptible to heat stress failure, able to withstand high temps over a much longer period. For those with lower boost applications, it would be my guess that the Gates will still outlast the Jason.

Now what I think would be beneficial for all is to find a good Gates supplier -- we all know that ATI charges a ridiculous premium for the Gates belts. Additionally, ordering from ATI is a pain in the patoot. So we're looking for good customer service, easy online ordering, AND the best price.

Time to search the Internet and see who can find a good supplier with the best price! Share what you find on this thread so we can compare notes!

Tere

08-11-2008, 08:30 PM

I just submitted an inquiry to the same folks who supplied us the Jason belts. They seemed to have the best price around on Jasons, so we'll see what they come up with on the Gates Powergrip GT 2 belts. They don't have online ordering but they do answer their phones and placing an order is easy. Service and shipping times are good.

E. B. Atmus Co. -- I'll let y'all know as soon as I get a response.

Tere

08-11-2008, 09:33 PM

Part Number Description Qty Item
Price Extended
Price
880-8MGT-30 POWERGRIP GT2 BELT 28.06 28.06
560-8MGT-30 POWERGRIP GT2 BELT 20.61 20.61
Product Subtotal: $48.67

You can order online -- it's a bit lethargic and tough to pull up, but I managed to get one of each into the Shopping Cart so you can see the prices.

The 5608s are 20% of the full ATI (undiscounted) price -- cheap!

The 8808s are 25% of the full ATI (undiscounted) price -- cheap again!

In fact, the Gates are cheaper than the Jasons.

Go here and scroll down to the 880-8MGT30 part number; click on the part number and it goes to your cart; do the same for the 560-8MGT30 part number. Warning, the page is huge and takes a really long time to load. I tried the search feature, but it never drew a good hit.

http://www.ebatmus.com/search.epl?Query=Gates

Tere

08-11-2008, 10:04 PM

Scary... the Jasons are making me too good at this! It took me longer to get the tools out and put them away than it did to swap the belt!

Place your bets on how long this one lasts! :):):)

By the way I ordered 2 8808s and 6 5608s -- less than $200 shipped. From ATI, that would be about $800 worth of belts...

Dr Bonz

08-12-2008, 07:19 AM

Wow. Great price. Thanks for doing the research Tere. When I finally decide to get my blower refurbished I will need new pulleys and will order from this site for new belts. Thanks again!

AuburnZ

08-12-2008, 09:38 AM

Good find on the belt pricing, Tere! Too bad you have to change them out so much.

Tere

08-12-2008, 07:55 PM

LOL... the hazards of living in south Texas in the summer.

I'll eventually get the issue resolved. ATI runs micro-V belts on all their high boost superchargers, and now we know why.

Jay'Z

08-12-2008, 08:37 PM

Tere, i need more help.. I had to change the cog flange pulley cause it was bent.. didnt realize what made it bend.. Now i realize today that my cog pulley behind the actual supercharger was the problem.. Its actually broken, i cant really tell how but the pulley spins on the shaft/actual sc.. I cant even pull the bolt off because the cog pulley has no type of hold to the shaft..

What do i DO? How can I pull that bolt off if i only get spinning? (the actual sc cog pulley)

Tere

08-13-2008, 08:26 PM

Take the belt off the pulley, wrap an nice thick towel (doubled to be safe) around the pulley, and put a big set of vise grips on the pulley. The towel should keep the vise grips from damaging the pulley. If the bolt is really on there, you may have to get an extra set of hands to help out. You might also have to rap the handle of your wrench with a hammer (impact effect) to break the bolt loose if King Kong torqued it down.

When you put the bolt back in, don't overtorque -- use LocTite to keep the bolt from backing out. The bolt only has to be tight enough to keep the pulley firmly seated -- the keyway keeps the pulley from slipping.

Jay'Z

08-13-2008, 08:36 PM

Tere

08-14-2008, 08:33 PM

Holy cow, now that's a tough one. If my memory isn't completely gone, there's a nut on the other side of the shaft where the compressor blade assembly attaches. It means you have to pull the intake hose to get at the nut. Make sure your wrench doesn't slip and damage the blades; they're fairly fragile.

Tere

08-14-2008, 08:39 PM

Jason 5608 #3 shed a couple teeth on the way home from work today. So after the engine cools down, Gates 8808 and 5608 belts are going on. I'll keep the Jason 8808 as an emergency spare since it's still in pretty good shape with no significant wear.

westpak

08-15-2008, 02:33 PM

new product that might help some of you

The ATI Procharger supercharger was one of the earliest forced induction kits available for the Nissan 350Z and Infiniti G35. Over the last couple of years we've encountered a minor, but consistent, flaw in the design of the ATI Procharger unit. When the pulleys are upgraded, additional stress is placed on the supercharger’s main bracket, causing it to flex. The angle of this flex causes the main belt to shift on the cog pulley under load. The end result of these actions is more rapid wear of the supercharger main belt, premature wear on the kits jackshaft assembly, and a loss of supercharger power and efficiency.

The AAM Competition Supercharger Flex Brace is the solution to this problem. Preliminary testing has show the AAM Comp Supercharger Flex Brace significantly reduces this flex and helps maintain belt longevity and supercharger power output. Constructed from the highest quality billet aluminum, the AAM Competition Supercharger Flex Brace can be used with Nissan 350Z and Infiniti G35 vehicles equipped with an ATI Procharger unit.

Note: A properly functioning jackshaft bearing greatly increases the effectiveness of the AAM Supercharger Brace. We will be working with Procharger to provide the best possible pricing for new jackshaft assemblies for those whose bearings have prematurely worn or those who have old units which are in need of fresh components.

For further information and pricing, feel free to give us a call at the shop, PM me or e-mail me at ClintonM@alteredatmosphere.com or Sales@alteredatmosphere.com

Recommended install time: 3 hours

In-Stock

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/SuperchargerBraceMain.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/SuperchargerBracket3.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/SuperchargerBracket4.jpg

BEFORE BRACE:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/th_MVI_2413.jpg (http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/?action=view&current=MVI_2413.flv)

WITH THE AAM BRACE

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/th_MVI_6426.jpg (http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/?action=view&current=MVI_6426.flv)

AuburnZ

08-15-2008, 03:24 PM

Good find, Gus!

Tere

08-15-2008, 08:38 PM

I haven't had any of the problems with the front bracket or the jackshaft. The front belt runs very true and there is no unusual belt wear except gradual deterioration due to heat stress on the rubber. No issues with the jackshaft bearings at all. The only bearing issue I had was on the main compressor shaft -- that shaft takes a lot more heat stress than the jackshaft. The shafts are steel and the housings are aluminum, so you can catch the drift of the potential issue -- the two metals expand and contract at different rates.

Maybe I can sweet talk AAM into doing up some micro-V pulleys since they're doing tinkering with the ProCharger. Both Doc Bonz and I have dealt with them before. They installed the Doc's Procharger back in '03, and I'm running their fuel rails (very nice billet aluminum) and pressure regulator.

Jay'Z

08-15-2008, 11:57 PM

Thats going to be a hard one to take off the intake hose.. but ill have to.. Thanks Tere..

Dr Bonz

08-16-2008, 08:15 AM

Gus, that seems to be exactly what has happened to mine. Tere, the JACKSHAFT is the thing that I was talking about in my PM to you. That is what they wanted me to send in to them (ATI) when I send in my compressor. Do you think this could be my problem (what the AAM ad for their brace said)?

Jay'Z

08-16-2008, 07:29 PM

That brace looks promising.... Ill have to get that.. but im stuck n/a now because i cant figure out how to take that damn pulley off still....

Jay'Z

08-16-2008, 07:30 PM

The jackshaft was only 50 bucks btw.. i replaced mine a few weeks ago.. it was easy..

Jay'Z

08-16-2008, 07:34 PM

I miss my SC.... :(

Jay'Z

08-17-2008, 07:41 PM

Dr Bonz

08-18-2008, 11:00 AM

That one is for Tere as I have never done that before.

Dr Bonz

08-18-2008, 11:02 AM

Reposted in case it was missed above:

Gus, that seems to be exactly what has happened to mine. Tere, the JACKSHAFT is the thing that I was talking about in my PM to you. That is what they wanted me to send in to them (ATI) when I send in my compressor. Do you think this could be my problem (what the AAM ad for their brace said)?

Tere

08-18-2008, 08:33 PM

Tere or Dr. Bonz, quick question.. If i loosen the clamp on the intake to pull off the rubber hose on the SC will how hard is it to re install(to get to the sc bolt and remove the pulley behind the sc)?? Will i have to remove the entire radiator support??

thanks..You will probably find it easier to pull the front fascia in order to make it easier to remove and re-install the intake hose. Hopefully, the pulley bolt is not on with a higher torque than the compressor nut, otherwise the nut will come off before the bolt. I'd use the tap (impact) method on the pulley bolt wrench to increase the probability of that one coming loose first. Remember to use LocTite and a low torque on the pulley bolts since all the bolt does is keep the pulley firmly seated on the shaft.

Tere

08-18-2008, 08:41 PM

Shipping time for the Gates belts is exactly 1 week -- ordered 8/11; delivered 8/18.

The vendor drop ships directly from the supplier (in this case, Gates), so shipping time is really a function of the supplier.

Ease of online order: 3 rating on a 5 scale -- locating the belts to get them in the basket is the tough (slow) part.

Shipping time: 4 rating on a 5 scale -- 1 week is OK, but not super speedy.

Price: 5 rating on a 5 scale -- price is excellent.

Jay'Z

08-18-2008, 09:03 PM

You will probably find it easier to pull the front fascia in order to make it easier to remove and re-install the intake hose. Hopefully, the pulley bolt is not on with a higher torque than the compressor nut, otherwise the nut will come off before the bolt. I'd use the tap (impact) method on the pulley bolt wrench to increase the probability of that one coming loose first. Remember to use LocTite and a low torque on the pulley bolts since all the bolt does is keep the pulley firmly seated on the shaft.

Ok thats easy enough.. I keep getting recommendations from Procharger to pull the entire supercharger (no way!) and use an impact gun.. Is that what you mean by Tap (impact)method?? I just wanna know what im getting into before i attempt this weekend.. Thanks again!!

I only have hand wrenches.. I can purchase an impact though.. Just not sure how id fit that back there and use it.. There must be a special extender. :book:

I ordered all new components, pulleys, jackshaft 2nd time, and all new key ways.. I may pick up the AAM brace if they give me a good deal.. Im just finding it hard to pay that kinda money for that little brace.. :(

Dr Bonz

08-19-2008, 07:32 AM

What are they (AAM) asking for the brace?

Tere/Gus: Do you think this "flexing" of the bracket and the resultant bending of the jackshaft could be the cause of my problems? As they said, it seems to occur after upgrading the pulleys as I did.

If I get the Procharger refurbished and the jackscrew replaced, do you think I should also go with this brace from AAM?

Jay'Z

08-19-2008, 08:26 PM

Jay'Z

08-19-2008, 09:02 PM

Ill be working on the car this weekend.. hope to finish all this work asap..

Tere

08-19-2008, 10:03 PM

You won't be able to get an impact in there on the pulley.

Have a friend hold the wrench on the compressor nut while you put your 14mm ratchet on the pulley bolt. Tap the wrench handle with a hammer. It gives the same effect as an impact wrench, and will hopefully loosen the bolt without the compressor nut coming loose first.

On the jackshaft replacement and brace: If you're going to pull the compressor, doing the jackshaft and brace wouldn't hurt since everything is disassembled anyway.

On mine, I don't see an issue with either the jackshaft or the need for a brace at the moment. When I put the pedal down at 3,500 rpm, the boost goes instantly to 7-8 psi (BOV slams shut) and then gradually builds as RPM increases. At about 6,800 when I shift, it's about 15 psi.

Jay'Z

08-20-2008, 07:52 AM

Ok, but Tere, how is it on a dyno.. I have seen my belts flap on a dyno and break immediately.. I also hit about 15psi, but i know there is flex there....

How are you running your belts? under the tensioner pulley or over?

Tere

08-20-2008, 09:19 PM

Over the top since it was designed to work that way. Running under puts too many teeth on the pulleys, particularly the driven (small) pulley, and is much harder to tension correctly. At redline (7,100) the belts run smooth and true. Too loose and they'll flop around a little as well as wear faster.

Aside from a few days of trial with the Jason belts. The current Gates 8808 is the same one I put on during the afternoon session at Texas World Speedway in the middle of May. It's still got a lot of life left in it. Now if I could just figure out how to keep the rubber from melting on the 5608s I'd be in great shape.

Jay'Z

08-20-2008, 09:53 PM

You think the gates are better than the Jason Belts?

Tere

08-21-2008, 08:03 PM

The Gates 5608s seem to have a higher heat threshhold than the Jasons. The Jason 5608s couldn't handle the heat and failed after 2-3 days (95+ air temps). Basically, the rubber melts and the teeth delaminate. There are some comparison photos back a ways in the thread that show the failure. The Gates 5608s last 2-3 weeks, plus they're a little cheaper than the Jasons.

Jay'Z

08-22-2008, 03:46 AM

I can say I totally agree with that statement....

Jay'Z

08-22-2008, 08:25 PM

I cant get these procharger people to send me the right damn keyways.. do you know the size on them by chance??

Tere

08-23-2008, 12:02 PM

I thought for the 350 C-2 kit all the keys were the same size. Not sure what size that is but I can measure one.

Now I'd never heard of a pulley key getting sheared like yours.

You jinxed me! Friday, I was pouring on some boost and all of a sudden, no boost. My first thought was that I had stripped the teeth off the belt, but then I started getting a small amount of boost, and I didn't hear the sound of a failed belt. Then I hear a clunk and something bouncing under the car for a second. When I get to work, I notice the bolt on the compressor pulley is missing (the clunk I heard was when the bolt departed).

I drove home at low rpms since the other pulley with the flange holds the belt in place and the belt holds the compressor pulley in place. This morning I took the belts off and the compressor pulley spins freely on the shaft. You guessed it -- sheared key.

The compressor pulley turns counterclockwise which is the same direction for loosening the bolt -- explains why the bolt departed. The melting pulley caught the bolt and spun it off. The steel shaft is OK, just the inside of the pulley is a bit melted from slipping on the shaft.

I do have a spare 22 -- the one I pulled because the teeth were worn. It's actually less worn than the one that was on there. I also have a spare key, but no spare bolt. I'm scouring my garage for the right size bolt, but I may have to go buy one.

So I guess we have determined another common failure point for high boost ProCharger applications -- the keys can only take so much torque before they shear.

Knowing what I now know about high boost on a ProCharger, I'd have done turbos from the start. Fewer issues for sure. There are too many failure points on the ProCharger C-2 application; it just wasn't designed to boost this high.

If I didn't have Godzilla on order and its downpayment fund in place, I'd ditch the ProCharger and do an APS Extreme turbo kit and knock out around 20-22 psi. Black Cherry is going to have to wait a while for big boost turbos. I think eventually, Black Cherry will go pure race car; Godzilla, Whizzy, and Moonshine will be the daily drivers.

Tere

08-23-2008, 05:48 PM

Houston, we have boost! :jumping40

I think I might have to keep a spare 22 on hand just in case the key shears again. The key on the compressor pulley takes the toughest load, so it's the one most likely to shear.

The bolt size for the compressor pulley is different from the rest of the pulley bolts. It's a 3/8" - 24 x 1.25.

As long as you've got a good key, use a spanner on the pulley when tightening the pulley bolt. I use two different spanner sizes, for the larger pulleys I use the same one to adjust the Tein suspension, and for the two 22s I use the larger one for the PiThon radiator hose locks.

Oh, with the 44/22 pulley set for 14 psi, you can exceed the max compressor rpm of 80,000. At 7,100 redline, the math says 93,031 = 6.5515 x 2 x 7100. To stay below 80,000 rpm, you would have to keep the engine speed at or below 6,100.

Another belt tidbit: The Gates serpentine belt for the ProCharger is K060615 -- best price I found for it is $20.79 at http://rockauto.com -- shipping for two is only $7.98 which puts you at $48 and change total for two belts -- good deal! I happened to notice today that it's about time to replace my serpentine belt.

Jay'Z

08-23-2008, 07:47 PM

Wow, your reading my mind... I actually started pulling this thing all apart today.. First i knocked off my front 22cog with a good key.. The reason i pulled it off was because i wanted to replace the jackshaft bearing area because the key sheared some of the edges. I replaced that in no time.. well about 45 mins.. I was going crazy trying to pull the washers with my bad tools.. lol.. I then pulled my bumper/bumper support.. Took the intake off and looked where you told me to place a wrench to hold the sc blade side.. Well there is an allen key holding in the sc blade.. Not a bolt.. So i stuck an allen key there and held it with vice grips.. Threw a 14 socket on the sheared pulley/key and it loosened :D.. I then took that off and noticed the key was basically grounded into the shaft... I took the sharp part of the pry bar and tapped it into the key way and took out the melted metal.. The shaft is a bit scored up.. but not too bad..

Im just wondering if there is any possible way to fix that key issue?? What can we use that is stronger(any idea is good, i have no clue)?? Btw i went to NAPA and simply bought 1/8 in of steel long sticks and used my dremel to cut to size.. I may go back to NAPA and see if they have anything stronger..

I have a heavy duty powersteering/alternator belt its gates with some green backing on it.. Not sure on the part#, i got it at napa after telling them there one week old belt frayed apart.. :(

BTW TT would have been so much easier..... ::sign42:

Jay'Z

08-25-2008, 08:48 PM

Looks like im sending in my blower to check out my impeller blade to make sure its perfect.. also inspect the blower...

Tere

08-25-2008, 09:43 PM

I took a peek at the serpentine today after I got home and decided I better not wait for the ones I ordered to come in. Once the serpentine starts going, it goes fast. So I ran up to the local O'Reilly and picked up a replacement. Including tax, $38 -- just think, for $10 more, I'm getting 2 belts delivered to my door. LOL... I'll have plenty of spare belts for everything. The serpentine I replaced was 1 month short of 5 years old -- the original from when I supercharged back in September of '03, so it lasted quite a while. It was really getting old though since the ribs were starting to crack -- sign of old rubber. So we know that 4 - 4.5 years is a good replacement interval -- don't wait for it to go bad in the middle of nowhere.

On the keys, I'd make sure they're softer than the shaft -- easier to replace a pulley and key than the shaft. You could try tempering the key by heating it up with a torch and then sticking it in cool water. Use ViseGrips to hold one end of your metal rod. Buying the metal rod and then cutting it to size is a great idea! I think I'll do the same just to have spare keys on hand.

We ought to have one of the Admins change the title of this thread to "High Boost ProCharger Issues and Tips." It's got a lot of good info in it on the ProCharger.

AuburnZ

08-26-2008, 10:44 AM

Title changed and stickied in the FI section...

Jay'Z

08-26-2008, 02:28 PM

Thanks.. Auburn and Tere..

BTW I did purchase a 2.5 inch filter so i can pull my procharger off and send it to ATI for a look and refurbish or rebuild if necessary.. Ill be pulling it off on thursday sending it off on friday at the latest..
I was told by procharger the impeller blade cost 750.. Yea :eek: I thought he meant 7.50.. But its seven hundred and fifty dollars.. lol

Not sure how long that will take for ATI to the do work, any idea?? I guess ill be n/a with a built engine for a while.. BTW a low compression engine n/a is like having a kia spectra.. :(

Jay'Z

08-26-2008, 07:29 PM

Just sent in my procharger for the rebuild.. They said it will take 1-2 weeks.. :o.. Cant wait to get it back hopefully better than ever..

Tere

08-26-2008, 09:34 PM

1-2 weeks isn't bad. I agree that losing 250-300 hp isn't cool -- doggie dog, but at least the four wheels go around and you can get from point A to B.

The new serpentine made a little difference. I think the old one was going slowly bad, so you don't really notice until you put the new one on. I put it to the floor and wound her up to redline this monring (70 degrees, which is cool around here). Went from 50 to 130 on the on ramp in a flash. Geez, I love it when everything is working right.

I sure do love the '03 350. The '91 TT is fun, and the '07 ZR is pretty nice, but when it comes to going fast, the '03 is so built for it. When you're cooking along at 130-140, it feels like you're going half that speed.

I can hardly wait to compare the GT-R to the '03 since they're both in about the same performance category.

Dr Bonz

08-26-2008, 09:36 PM

Well, at least YOUR 03 is. :)

Tere

08-27-2008, 10:28 PM

LOL... Doc, your '03 certainly isn't any slouch in the speed category! Back when I had the 9 pounders, I was out accelerating the Vettes in a 1-mile standing start straight run (200' x 8,500' runway). Back then, I still had the 156 speed limiter so I couldn't go higher even though I had plenty of pavement left before the 1-mile point.

There's a guy who ran his GT-R on the Texas World Speedway a couple weeks ago, and he was hitting the same speed on the front straight that I was hitting in the '03.

Jay'Z

08-28-2008, 06:55 AM

BTW i just received the AAM brace.. Super expensive for such a small part IMO.. I hope it will help with flex issues and belts breaking at high boost.. Ill post a review asap

Dr Bonz

08-28-2008, 12:13 PM

How much do they ask for it?

Jay'Z

08-28-2008, 06:26 PM

On the website check this out Dr Bonz

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/SuperchargerBraceMain.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/SuperchargerBracket3.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/SuperchargerBracket4.jpg

BEFORE BRACE:

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/th_MVI_2413.jpg (http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/?action=view&current=MVI_2413.flv)

WITH THE AAM BRACE

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/th_MVI_6426.jpg (http://s221.photobucket.com/albums/dd216/AlteredPhotos/Procharger%20Adapter/?action=view&current=MVI_6426.flv)[/QUOTE]

http://www.alteredatmosphere.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=AAM&Product_Code=AAM35I-SCBRACE&Category_Code=350Z_FI

Tere

08-28-2008, 09:10 PM

I've never seen that kind of flex on my setup. I'd know because I only have about 3/16" clearance between the belt and engine cover. If I had the flex and that kind of belt bounce, I'd see signs of the belt hitting the engine cover. I'd also see signs on the bracket itself since the engine cover rides right on the bracket. Mine runs pretty stable, pretty much like the one in the with brace video. I don't see the brace doing much for me.

Jay'Z

08-28-2008, 09:17 PM

My cover shows signs of flex :( My belts do flap on all dynos..

Have you ever dyno'd your car Tere? That would let you observe the flapping then..

Dr Bonz

08-29-2008, 06:53 AM

Wow. I was going to say the same thing as Tere. I have never seen my belts flap that much! I will take a look at the under surface of my engine cover to check, but I would think that if my belt was doing what yours did in the first video, it would destroy the cover since it sits VERY close to the belt.

Jay'Z

08-29-2008, 10:07 PM

Nah, it wont destroy the cover, especially if you cut it with some good space from the belt.. It flaps more by the cog pulley area, where the 22 tooth pulley is.. Then it throws all the belts teeth out like its getting a haircut..

Tere

08-29-2008, 11:07 PM

Yep, I've seen the belts on the dyno, and they sure don't bounce around like the first video. It might have something to do with how I tension the belts, which is a wee bit tighter than spec. If the belts were hitting the cover, you'd see a stripe on the top of the belt. What I'd recommend if you see that kind of bounce on the belt, tighten it up a bit.

Jay'Z

08-30-2008, 05:59 PM

I max tighten it out.. and it still does that......

Tere

08-31-2008, 11:00 AM

Okie dokie. Next thing I'd look at is how true the belts are running. If they tend to run up the flanges on the idler pulley, they're not running true, and that will cause them to flop around -- they run up the flange and then drop down. I think you can see it on the first video if you look carefully. It will also show up as fraying on one of the belt edges.

Jay'Z

08-31-2008, 01:05 PM

How would i fix if they arent running true? Im not sure if the tensioner bolt is crooked or the tensioner bolt is or could be positioned a certain way..

Tere

09-01-2008, 10:17 AM

Could be a couple things.

1. The jackshaft bent or bearing bad -- either of the two jackshafts on the front bracket

2. Different tensions between the front and rear belts -- enough to put a twist in the brackets or run the jackshaft a little off. Shimming between the two brackets can sometimes help, but most commonly only if the rear belt isn't running true.

Also check the front idler pulley while the engine is running to see if there is any wobble. You may want to have someone sit in the car and run various rpms.

Jay'Z

09-05-2008, 08:24 PM

Hoping to get my SC back next week......

Tere

09-08-2008, 10:10 PM

Okay, who put the hex on me? All I had was inner belt issues.

Then out of the blue, the compressor driven pulley key gets sheared. Fix that up in no time and we're off and running.

I checked the oil this weekend and saw it was about half a bottle low -- odd. So I topped her up.

Coming home from work today, I picked up an unusual sound. Sounded like something was rubbing on something. Popped the hood when I got home and a quick visual didn't show anything out of the ordinary -- both belts looked good. So I went in to grab some dinner and let the engine cool so I could look closer.

Second inspection still didn't turn up anything odd. On a whim I checked the oil level again. Down a half a bottle again!

Topped her up again and started the engine, letting it idle. Put my hand on the compressor housing and it's vibrating. If I push on the housing the vibration changes. Hmmm... sounds like the main compressor shaft bearing is going bad -- that would explain the oil loss -- seepage through the bearing. Oh boy, lucky me. Sounds like my ProCharger is going in for a rebuild too!

Okay fess up, who put the hex?

I'm about ready to switch back to 9 psi pulleys -- didn't have problems with those. Seems the 14 psi pulleys wear the ProCharger fast. The C-2 blower doesn't seem to be built to withstand the redline rpms (80,000) very well, so all components fail fairly quickly -- design life looks to be three years at 14 psi.

motowipeout

09-09-2008, 02:17 AM

Why not try something like this........

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee18/motowipeout/Turbo-Sprezarka.jpg

;)

Dr Bonz

09-09-2008, 05:35 PM

What's that? A picture of your hair dryer? :)

Tere

09-09-2008, 08:11 PM

What's that? A picture of your hair dryer? :)LMAO... That might give you a really bad case of the frizzies!

Seriously though, the APS Extreme is looking better and better -- continue to sink money into the ProCharger from now until doomsday, or replace with something with more boost and less headache. I think I'm at a crossroads with the good old Flyin Z -- which path to take? :)

Jay'Z

09-09-2008, 11:41 PM

Dr Bonz

09-10-2008, 07:58 PM

I might have started it but I'll most likely be the last one to have it resolved. Simply NO TIME! :(

Tere

09-10-2008, 09:04 PM

Im already wanting to do this(upgrade to Powerlab ST).. I just gotta take in the fact i would be spending another 8k on this car.. BTW, i guess Dr. Bonz started the hex.. then we all got are prochargers rebuilt..

On a good note i just got my procharger back today.. Only took a week turnaround!! Pretty damn good!

Im just waiting on AAM to send me the proper bolts for the bracket and ill be up and running............A week turn around is good news. I haven't had a chance to sit on hold with ATI for a year. I just I'll just have to plan a "lunch break" to listen to ATI muzak.

On an interim basis, I did manage to smooth out the vibration, but I don't know how long that will last. Smoothing out the vibration reduced the oil seepage issue.

If I weren't doing the GT-R, I'd have the APS Extreme on order, but I want to avoid dipping into my GT-R "trust fund." Basically all my 350 mod mad money is going into the GT-R fund. LOL... As slow as Nissan is in getting the GT-Rs delivered, I'll have it paid off before I buy it.

motowipeout

09-10-2008, 09:23 PM

I don't think Greddy is going to be an option for any of you anymore (if you were thinking about that kit). I just read on another site that Trust/Greddy filed for bankruptcy, and that they owe somewhere in the neighborhood of $63 million.

Jay'Z

09-10-2008, 09:57 PM

Oh well.. Powerlab ftmfw!! BTW, ill be running better than ever.. I havent had my blower in this great condition since it was purchased.. I think a rock snuck in and messed up my blade when SGP installed it.. I just never saw the blade until 2years later when i had to replace the input shaft..

Im excited about the aam bracket too!

motowipeout

09-10-2008, 10:16 PM

Hope you dyno then post numbers when it's all finished. :sign11:

carbonz

09-10-2008, 10:46 PM

Just looking through this post. I am thinking about a Pro Charger. Your heat problem with the throttle body got me thinking. How about a CO2 tank with an intercooler spray or a coil wrap around the intake, spray at the track and keep the component together. Cooler intake air equates to more HP

Jay'Z

09-11-2008, 01:47 PM

Do it and tell me about it....

motowipeout

09-11-2008, 02:11 PM

Do it! Do it!

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JoqDYcCDOTg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JoqDYcCDOTg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

carbonz

09-11-2008, 08:32 PM

I'm a long ways away from DOING IT. I need the Pro Charger first.

Jay'Z

09-11-2008, 10:01 PM

Im just saying.. You could sit here and speculate anything.. Until you do it, thats all talk.. Make it happen.. :leseratte

Jay'Z

09-12-2008, 10:34 PM

Just finished install.. It was not too bad, took 3 hours of hardcore sweat (lost my mind a few times and threw tools/said **** a billion times!!:mad:).. If AAM can do this in 30 minutes (Clint told me one of the techs did this) they either have way better tools than me or they are GODs( I did have to figure out alot myself)... I was sent intructions but honestly I didnt go by them because I didnt get much from them, not enough detail i guess.. I have pics and I will post my experience for anyone else purchasing this product wont have such a hard time figuring this out....

Installation pics/my instructions... :pullup:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/AAMPROCHARGERBRACKETINSTALL001.jpg

First step is to remove all of the procharger belts, the two jackshaft pulleys and the jackshaft itself..

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/AAMPROCHARGERBRACKETINSTALL002.jpg

Then you have to loosen up the three allen bolts holding the bracket, hard to get to but a ratchet allen key makes it easier..

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/AAMPROCHARGERBRACKETINSTALL003.jpg

You then have to remove the entire jackshaft by removing one thick washer and knocking the shaft out.. You must then remove the jackshaft bracket and detach it from the supercharger ( 4 small allen key bolts ) also remove 6 bolts holding a U shape spacer.. Maybe I am adding this step but it makes it easier to tighten the bracket bolts, and I didnt see any other way of making it happen honestly.. AAM instructions show different if i remember correctly..

Once you do that you can get that bracket in there very easy, tighten the two long bolts.. Then start re-installing the jackshaft bracket etc..

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/AAMPROCHARGERBRACKETINSTALL004.jpg

This is a brand new jackshaft, I really felt the install was impossible with that in the bracket to reinstall it.. So you dont re install the jackshaft until the bracket for the shaft is in there first..

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/AAMPROCHARGERBRACKETINSTALL005.jpg

This picture illustrates what im talking about, I didnt put that jackshaft back in until the entire bracket was back together.. Once it looks like this, your ready to move on to put the jackshaft bearing back in..

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/AAMPROCHARGERBRACKETINSTALL006.jpg

Different angle of the same above pic.. This is where i lost alot of time/got lost in translation/install instructions didnt guide me in the right direction here.. :o.... Once I was here I simply had to bolt up the last two bolts on the new bracket..
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/AAMPROCHARGERBRACKETINSTALL007.jpg

Im skipping alot of small details, but if anyone has any questions just PM me.. I then re installed new keyways and a new pulley.. Re installed all the pulleys and belts, re-tensioned them and was good to go..
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/AAMPROCHARGERBRACKETINSTALL008.jpg

All done here..... Some of the small things take up so much time ( like removing the jackshaft washer major PITA ) ... This isnt hard IMO just tedious..

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/AAMPROCHARGERBRACKETINSTALL009.jpg

Back to FI here and ready to test out the new rebuilt SC and AAM bracket.. Ill let you know how it feels tmrw..

Tere

09-13-2008, 09:47 AM

Looks good! Good photos and write-up for the install.

I still haven't had the chance to listen to ATI musak yet -- hopefully, this coming week will be a little less insane.

Waiting for your get-up-and-go report! :)

By the way, there is an intake air cooler -- mounts on the intake ducting. I was thinking about putting one in but never got around to doing it. Same company also makes a cooler for the intercooler. The science is there anyway. Here's a link to one, but there are others out there on the market as well. http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=400384+314502+115&autoview=sku

motowipeout

09-13-2008, 10:02 AM

^^^
+1 Looks great! The force is strong with you.

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee18/motowipeout/vader_joinme.jpg

Jay'Z

09-13-2008, 10:25 AM

carbonz

09-13-2008, 12:42 PM

I'm not coming up with anything new. A co2 tank system spraying the intercooler or a coiled tube around the intake piping is safer than spraying nos internally. It definately would'nt be a full time solution but would help on track days. The negative 320 degrees that co2 produces will temporally freeze the intercooler or the surface of the piping.
I used a five pound tank system on a single turbo 1.8lt Acura. I sprayed the intercooler with nos. It was dynoed at 297hp and 260 tq. The nos does'nt make it to the internals.
I just don't sit around on my butt and speculate, I have actually played around with this stuff a "little bit". I just don't have the funds together at this time to super charge the Z. If I was as far along with my car as you are I could try and prove my theory.

Jay'Z

09-13-2008, 01:47 PM

My compressor pulley bolt flew off.... Damn, i can never get ahead.. This **** is depressing..

I apologize if i came off rude carbonz, but this procharger has been 2 years of a PITA for me.... Im giving up.. like now...

Tere

09-13-2008, 09:12 PM

Dayum...

Not that I make it a habit of hanging out at Pep Boys, but they have a good bolt supply -- 3/8" - 24 x 1-1/4" is the bolt. The washer is very thick. If you can't find a thick one, you can double up washers. You did use LocTite on the bolt, right?

Jay'Z

09-14-2008, 12:03 AM

Actually im screwed.. The SC needs to be rebuilt again... :(

motowipeout

09-14-2008, 08:49 AM

Actually im screwed.. The SC needs to be rebuilt again... :(

Hate to hear about that, so what's next?

Jay'Z

09-14-2008, 10:23 AM

I have to wait till monday call ATI and get an RMA number and talk about pricing etc.. Maybe they will warranty there work....

Tere

09-14-2008, 10:24 AM

Actually im screwed.. The SC needs to be rebuilt again... :(Holy cow! What on earth did that bolt do when it flew off? It shouldn't have caused any internal damage to the SC.

Jay'Z

09-14-2008, 10:25 AM

The input shaft is locked up.... Internals are shot.... Have any idea what that would cost?

Jay'Z

09-14-2008, 03:07 PM

For the two minutes i had it back up.. It sounded so beautiful.... Like better than ever before.. ATI upraded it to a 10:1 ratio.. For those two minutes i was free, no cares in life, not my Soldiers, not the bills, nothing.. I was free.. Then the worst happens.... :cry2:

Now i have to send it back to ATI.. Something went wrong internally and it locked up( the SC ).. :(
So I tore it back out and boxed it up for tmrw to be rebuilt... http://smiliesftw.com/x/waveywtc.gif (http://smiliesftw.com)
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/BACKTOSQUARE1.jpg

CraseZ

09-14-2008, 07:11 PM

I have been thinking about a supercharger for quite some time and finally just got all the other parts I had previously purchased (Hotchkis suspension kit, Crawford high flow cats, motordyne plenum spacer, polished plenum etc. installed on the car (I installed some parts and Forged Performance did an excellent job of installing those items I never had the time to mess with) and also added a Turbo XS UTEC which Sharif tuned for me.

I'm ready for the supercharger now and based on this thread and other advice I've heard at meets have pretty much decided that the Vortec kit is the way to go.

Has anyone out there heard of recurring problems similar to those experienced here with the procharger also occurring with the Vortec? I know the belt and lubrication configuration is different but are there other issues?

I don't use the car for serious track days but just a few blasts on the street now and then (alright daily) but am concerned about reliability even though the Z is just a weekend car for me.

Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Jay'Z

09-14-2008, 07:37 PM

Tere

09-14-2008, 10:59 PM

Keep in mind this ProCharger thread is for those running the supercharger at it's limits. We are prone to more problems and failures.

If you run the ProCharger at the 7 psi or 9 psi levels, it's pretty reliable.

But like any other piece of equipment when run at its design limits, failures are more common. I know my failure points and simply stock parts, just like any racing team would do. That's the point where we're at with high boost ProChargers. There aren't very many of us who run at this level since it requires a fully built engine to do it.

I imagine the Vortec would be no different if run at it's design limits -- everything has its limits.

If a part can be broken on a Z car, I can break it. I think I know all the 350 weaknesses.

Tere

09-14-2008, 11:12 PM

I've got two head units, so I'm going to keep my current one installed and baby it along. I'll send the other one (also with a bad main bearing) in to be rebuilt. I think I'll have 'em do the 10:1 mod as well.

Jay'Z

09-15-2008, 10:34 AM

Tere, I have to say again.. The 10:1 mod made it sound so sweet..... It was like heaven..

I just talked to ATI and they are going to pay for the shipping and most likely the fix.. Thank god!

How do you have two blowers Tere?

CraseZ

09-15-2008, 03:43 PM

Talk to your tuner, Sharif@forged will have better advice for you than anyone in any forum period.. He aint about screwing no one over or making a sale.. That is my advice, talk to him...

BTW this thread aint over, I will never quit.. I will be back up and running soon!!

I agree with you completely and have spoken to Sharif and mapped out a plan for the Vortec.

I have the highest regard for Sharif and Forged Performance and would never trust any other shop here in Atlanta with my car.

It just seems like a lot of new threads lately about people deciding to pull superchargers off their Z's and G's (not this thread but in many others her and on G Frenzy).

Thanks for the input and good luck with your procharger.

Tere

09-15-2008, 08:10 PM

I called ATI today and when I started talking the 10:1 mod, the guy acted like I was on a different planet. Then he went back to the "blower shop" to ask someone and apparently no one had a clue. I'm assuming the mod is the internal gear ratio in the blower unit. Who do I need to talk to who has a clue?

Rather than rebuild when the main bearings went out, I ended up buying a new blower ($1,800 for the entire head unit). So I figured this time, I'd send the original one in for a rebuild and keep the newer one in while the other one is rebuilt.Tere, I have to say again.. The 10:1 mod made it sound so sweet..... It was like heaven..

I just talked to ATI and they are going to pay for the shipping and most likely the fix.. Thank god!

How do you have two blowers Tere?

Jay'Z

09-16-2008, 12:44 PM

My bad Tere its 10:00 not 10:01.. I can scan it if you would like to see my ticket?

AuburnZ

09-16-2008, 12:46 PM

Sorry to hear about the procharger having problems as soon as you put it back on, Jay'Z. Hopefully, you can get it worked out with ATI...

Jay'Z

09-16-2008, 12:49 PM

I will find out either this week or early next week at the latest.. :zx11shock

motowipeout

09-16-2008, 07:28 PM

Dayum, hope you get things worked out soon. I've found out from personal experience that owning a modified Z can be a real PITA.

Tere

09-16-2008, 10:07 PM

My bad Tere its 10:00 not 10:01.. I can scan it if you would like to see my ticket?Now I have to figure out exactly what that mod is so I can 'splain it to the tech. :)

Jay'Z

09-17-2008, 09:19 AM

Now I have to figure out exactly what that mod is so I can 'splain it to the tech. :)

Let me show you.... Gimme a min..

Jay'Z

09-17-2008, 09:24 AM

http://www.procharger.com/models.shtml

Internal step up.. Let me review my ticket and post it/scan it..

Dr Bonz

09-17-2008, 04:27 PM

Guys. What exactly is a 10 to 1 mod?

Jay'Z

09-17-2008, 04:41 PM

Its 4.10:1... Internal step up.. Click on the above link and ull see what im talking about.. The C2 has 4.70:1 and the P1SC has internal step up of 4.10:1

They had put my C2 to 4.10:1, I been typing the wrong numbers I apologize for the confusion.. I hope they do the same mod again.....

Tere

09-17-2008, 08:58 PM

I got it. Seems like 4.1 is a step down from 4.7 -- less rotation speed = less boost.

I had to laugh at their quoted max boost on a C-2 -- 24 psi???? How on earth can you get that when we're already running at 80,000 redline with 44:22 pulleys? I would love to see 24 psi (heck, I'd settle for just 20 psi)! I think I'll ask the tech how I can get 24 psi. My engine is begging me for more boost! :)

Jay'Z

09-17-2008, 09:02 PM

Yep, and it sounded so sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.. Please ask them how you could acheive that psi.. LMAO....

The tech will prob tell you its impossible...

Well... Im gonna scan my sheet tmrw.. I gotta pull the sheet out.. then you tell me what you think.. Maybe i got it all wrong.. :o

Dr Bonz

09-19-2008, 10:22 AM

Jay'Z

09-19-2008, 02:59 PM

Procharger has been rebuilt, should get it back by monday!! ATI customer service FTMFW! Rebuilt in one day :EEK:........ Cant wait!! :eekdance:

How is ur house looking Doc? Ok??

Tere

09-19-2008, 08:29 PM

he!!, I'd settle for my original 9 psi right now. Still no time to remove and send in mine for refurbishing. The last remnants of Hurricane Ike hit us way up here in PA on Sunday night and the wind knocked out my power for nearly 5 days! Just got back on last night from Sunday!To think I only live 180 miles west of Houston, and last weekend was absolutely gorgeous -- 90 degrees and sunshine with a little breeze. In SA we didn't get a drop of rain out of Ike.

Glad to hear you weathered Ike OK Doc, despite the power outage. Folks in east Texas probably won't get power back for a couple weeks. Galvaston is a real wreck.

Tere

09-19-2008, 08:38 PM

Procharger has been rebuilt, should get it back by monday!! ATI customer service FTMFW! Rebuilt in one day :EEK:........ Cant wait!! :eekdance:Great turn around time. I'm sending 'em my original blower tomorrow. And I've been running sans blower since Wednesday. I sheared the compressor pulley key again, so tomorrow I'm going to see if I can slap a temp fix on it until I get the rebuilt blower and a new compressor pulley shipped back. Running with about 250 fewer ponies in the herd is a real drag--I couldn't play with Muskrat GT this evening on the way home (darn it).

Let us know how everything goes with the install -- you're getting too much practice swapping the blower in and out!

Dr Bonz

09-20-2008, 08:46 AM

My house and area are just fine. We had no rain at all. Just wind gusts up to 50 MPH that downed a lot of trees and took down a lot of power lines.

I wish I had that kind of know how so I didn't feel so nervous about taking this thing apart and being able to get it back together.

Jay'Z

09-20-2008, 11:43 AM

Yep, Im getting so good at it that im doing it in 2hrs or less.....

Jay'Z

09-20-2008, 02:36 PM

Its pretty easy Dr. Bonz..... All you have to do is remove the 4 allen bolts that are mounted on the bracket... Ill try to do a step by step and take pics.

Dr Bonz

09-20-2008, 02:52 PM

You da man JayZ! Thanks!

Jay'Z

09-20-2008, 08:21 PM

You know what sucks.. Fedex came today with the damn SC, and didnt deliver it because I didnt hear a knock or a door bell..... FTL.. Ill def have it on monday now.........

Tere

09-21-2008, 05:14 PM

Blower is now blowing. I spent more in gas to drive to the NAPA distribution center than the keyway stock costs--none of the nearby NAPA stores had any 1/8" keyway stock.

Jay'Z

09-21-2008, 05:35 PM

Blower is now blowing. I spent more in gas to drive to the NAPA distribution center than the keyway stock costs--none of the nearby NAPA stores had any 1/8" keyway stock.

That dont make no sense... :scared07: My local napa sold me like 3 1/8" keyway strips of steel. really cheap!! :093:

BTW, if you ask ati they will send you new ones for free....

Jay'Z

09-22-2008, 06:46 PM

I finished the install and took as much detailed pics as i could.. I will be uploading and posting them shortly... The install tools are basic, 2 socket wrench set if possible, ring clip tool, mechanics gloves, and 2 sets of allen keys if possible...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL008.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL015.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL001.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL002.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL004.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL005.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL006.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL007.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL008-1.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL009.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL010.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL011.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL012.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL013.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL014.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL016.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL017.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL018.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL019.jpg

Jay'Z

09-22-2008, 07:01 PM

I finished the install and took as much detailed pics as i could.. I will be uploading and posting them shortly... The install tools are basic, 2 socket wrench set if possible, ring clip tool, mechanics gloves, and 2 sets of allen keys if possible...

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL007.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL015.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL008.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL001.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL002.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL004.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL005.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL006.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL009.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL010.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL011.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL012.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL013.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL014.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL017.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL018.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL019.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL016.jpg

Jay'Z

09-22-2008, 07:06 PM

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL020.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL021.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL022.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL023.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL024.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL025.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL026.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL029.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL027.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/C2PROCHARGERINSTALL028.jpg

Jay'Z

09-22-2008, 07:08 PM

Dr. Bonz, I dont have enough time to edit the post/type instructions.. it only allows edit for 15mins FTMFL!!!!!!

Tere

09-22-2008, 08:54 PM

Wondering if you got any more info on the 4.1:1 versus the 4.7:1 internal gear ratios? I'm still thinking that 4.7:1 gives more boost since compressor speed is increased according to the math of the thing.

Jay'Z

09-22-2008, 09:57 PM

The sheet just says P1SC and it lists all the parts separately.. Im gonna take a pic now and post it for you..

Jay'Z

09-22-2008, 10:11 PM

Here is the sheet................................

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e218/jonb7777/REBUILDSHEET.jpg

Tere

09-23-2008, 09:15 PM

That's really strange since it's a C-2 blower, and the P1SC is different. I sure hope they don't try to do a 4.1:1 on mine. I definitely want the 4.7:1 gear ratio.

Here's the math for impeller rpm with the 44/22 pulleys at my 7,100 redline:

(5.75/5.25) x (44/22) x (28/22) x 4.7 X 7100 = 92,958 (16 psi)

(5.75/5.25) x (44/22) x (28/22) x 4.1 X 7100 = 81,091 (14 psi)

Basically, with a 4.1:1 ratio, they're keeping the rpm down close to 80,000 redline.

Within my set up, I hit compressor redline at a lower rpm, near the max hp part of the power curve -- power curve and max boost line up (around 6,200 engine rpm).

What's laughable is where are they getting 24 psi? I can push about 16 psi if I exceed compressor redline. How on earth can you get 24 psi when I'm 12,000 over max compressor redline and can only get 16? Must be smoking some good stuff to come up with 24 psi.

Jay'Z

09-23-2008, 11:31 PM

I sure do know this new blower is awesome!! This thing is doing great with high psi so far. .. I was at 5krpm and it was in 13psi... So I know the rebuild made a difference.... Its sounds so much meaner!!

Dr Bonz

09-24-2008, 01:59 PM

Thanks for the pics Jay. I'm am still confused by all this 4:1:1 4:7:1 stuff though. I thought Max RPMs on the C2 blower (which is what we have correct?) was 80,000. I don't want to push things and have it spin faster than that. Heck, at 9 psi mine has now worn out. It took almost 5 years but if I exceed their specs, it'll wear out a lot faster I would guess.

Tere

09-27-2008, 10:59 AM

Yep, it's a lot tougher on the blower oil seals and probably the internal gears. You have to watch it closer and maintain it better. Based on my experience, it will be 2 - 2.5 years between rebuilds when you run it at its limits with 44/22 pulleys. We'll see what ATI says about the internals of my original blower -- I sent it a week ago and haven't heard back from them yet.

I'm still confused on the P-1SC stuff for a C-2 blower -- the P-1SC uses larger diameter piping (0.5" larger diameter) and larger impeller in order to have a larger cfm air flow. It also has a max rpm of 62,000 rpm compared to the C-2's 80,000 rpm.

Jay'Z

09-27-2008, 12:39 PM

I was running 44/22 for 2 years and the only thing that went wrong was keyways and the impeller blade....

Dr Bonz

09-27-2008, 04:03 PM

Just for my info, what psi are the 44/22's and what gear ratio are my 9 psi pulleys?

Jay'Z

09-28-2008, 10:21 AM

44/22 will get you 16psi.. With my low compression motor its a little harder but i hit it and break belts...

Dont know a gear ratio on the 9psi, its the tooth count on the pulleys...

Tere

09-28-2008, 05:28 PM

I forget the exact tooth count on the 9 psi pulleys, but it's between these two. :)

http://zchickz.com/t-pulley1.jpg

Dr Bonz

09-29-2008, 07:19 AM

OK Thanks!

Tere

09-29-2008, 09:41 PM

Here ya go Doc -- the 9lb count...

http://zchickz.com/pc-9lb2.jpg

Dr Bonz

09-30-2008, 11:02 AM

Thanks X 2! :)

Jay'Z

10-01-2008, 12:46 AM

Tere, is it possible to buy/ get 20psi pulleys?

carbonz

10-01-2008, 05:07 PM

You know I don't have a system yet, but from what Tere has posted, she is around 16psi and turning around 90k at the compressor. You crank the compressor speed up even higher, I bet it just might self distruct. 80k is the rated max rpm. Keep posting all the info. That way when I get totally nuts, do a pro charger, I'll know when I'm shooting myself in the foot!!!!!!!

Tere

10-01-2008, 09:32 PM

You'd only be running over redline in short bursts, so you'd probably be OK. Seals would go first, followed by bearings--time for rebuild then. Unlikely that the whole thing would suddenly self-destruct. I only exceed compressor redline when I get above 6,100-6,200 rpm.

Tere

10-01-2008, 09:51 PM

Tere, is it possible to buy/ get 20psi pulleys?I've been begging ProCharger folks to give us 20psi micro-V pulleys for years, but they don't seem interested. Sooooo... Looks like a good local machine shop is about the only way to go. The problem I see with higher boost is the compressor redline rpm. When I asked the techs about higher boost, the answer was an immediate no way, no how. So how does ATI rate the thing at 24 psi when it's no way, no how? The front drive pulley for that kind of boost whould have to be huge.

I think it's interesting that all the P-1SC blowers use micro-V belts.

Jay'Z

10-01-2008, 09:56 PM

Ok, sounds like Im going to have to be happy/satisfied with the 16psi pulleys.. Which I am.. This new rebuilt blower is so damn sick sounding!!

Tere

10-07-2008, 09:33 PM

Finally got the diagnosis on my old original blower repair. It's exactly as I thought -- the main bearing is toast and it shed bits and pieces into the gearbox. Soooo... I'm getting all new internals. Luckily, the impeller is OK. Total repair cost is $1,173. Less than I expected given my original best guess on the damage. I also ordered 3 new 22 pulleys -- 2 to replace the existing, and one shelf spare.

I'm expecting the blower back by Friday, so it's blower swap this weekend. I'm going to get the other unit rebuilt as well since it's not as far gone, so it should be cheaper -- new bearing seals and main shaft. That will give me a shelf spare blower. :)

Talked again with the tech about how they get 24 psi boost out of the C-2. He didn't have any good answers. I also asked him about P-1SC internals -- he said no way since the gearbox is entirely different from the C-2.

Hey, did we lose some posts from this weekend -- I thought I put a couple other posts in here... Maybe my old brain slipped a couple cogs.